lesslucid (![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif){kind=small} lesslucid) wrote,@ 2008-05-02 16:20:00 |
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long quote, some thoughts.
OK, let me see if I can figure out how to put all this stuff under a
Soc. That may very well be, inasmuch as doing injustice is the greatest of evils.
Pol. But is it the greatest? Is not suffering injustice a greater evil?
Soc. Certainly not.
Pol. Then would you rather suffer than do injustice?
Soc. I should not like either, but if I must choose between them, I would rather suffer than do.
Pol. Then you would not wish to be a tyrant?
Soc. Not if you mean by tyranny what I mean.
Pol. I mean, as I said before, the power of doing whatever seems good to you in a state, killing, banishing, doing in all things as you like.
Soc. Well then, illustrious friend, when I have said my say, do you reply to me. Suppose that I go into a crowded Agora, and take a dagger under my arm. Polus, I say to you, I have just acquired rare power, and become a tyrant; for if I think that any of these men whom you see ought to be put to death, the man whom I have a mind to kill is as good as dead; and if I am disposed to break his head or tear his garment, he will have his head broken or his garment torn in an instant. Such is my great power in this city. And if you do not believe me, and I show you the dagger, you would probably reply: Socrates, in that sort of way any one may have great power -- he may burn any house which he pleases, and the docks and triremes of the Athenians, and all their other vessels, whether public or private -- but can you believe that this mere doing as you think best is great power?
Pol. Certainly not such doing as this.
Soc. But can you tell me why you disapprove of such a power?
Pol. I can.
Soc. Why then?
Pol. Why, because he who did as you say would be certain to be punished.
There's more here:
http://www.humanities.mq.edu.au/Ock
I love this dialogue, and I find it basically very convincing. I agree: it is better to suffer than to do injustice.
But the question which comes to my mind today is, is it better to do injustice or to allow injustice to be done to others? That is, if there is an evil act that you know will occur, or is likely to occur, and you can only certainly prevent it by committing an evil act yourself, is it better to allow a wrong to be committed or to prevent it by committing a wrong act? I think on the whole I am inclined to believe that Socrates' answer still holds, that it is better to allow the wrong than to do wrong, regardless of who the victim is, but it seems... psychologically more difficult to accept.
Hmm.
OK, let me see if I can figure out how to put all this stuff under a
Soc. That may very well be, inasmuch as doing injustice is the greatest of evils.
Pol. But is it the greatest? Is not suffering injustice a greater evil?
Soc. Certainly not.
Pol. Then would you rather suffer than do injustice?
Soc. I should not like either, but if I must choose between them, I would rather suffer than do.
Pol. Then you would not wish to be a tyrant?
Soc. Not if you mean by tyranny what I mean.
Pol. I mean, as I said before, the power of doing whatever seems good to you in a state, killing, banishing, doing in all things as you like.
Soc. Well then, illustrious friend, when I have said my say, do you reply to me. Suppose that I go into a crowded Agora, and take a dagger under my arm. Polus, I say to you, I have just acquired rare power, and become a tyrant; for if I think that any of these men whom you see ought to be put to death, the man whom I have a mind to kill is as good as dead; and if I am disposed to break his head or tear his garment, he will have his head broken or his garment torn in an instant. Such is my great power in this city. And if you do not believe me, and I show you the dagger, you would probably reply: Socrates, in that sort of way any one may have great power -- he may burn any house which he pleases, and the docks and triremes of the Athenians, and all their other vessels, whether public or private -- but can you believe that this mere doing as you think best is great power?
Pol. Certainly not such doing as this.
Soc. But can you tell me why you disapprove of such a power?
Pol. I can.
Soc. Why then?
Pol. Why, because he who did as you say would be certain to be punished.
There's more here:
http://www.humanities.mq.edu.au/Ock
I love this dialogue, and I find it basically very convincing. I agree: it is better to suffer than to do injustice.
But the question which comes to my mind today is, is it better to do injustice or to allow injustice to be done to others? That is, if there is an evil act that you know will occur, or is likely to occur, and you can only certainly prevent it by committing an evil act yourself, is it better to allow a wrong to be committed or to prevent it by committing a wrong act? I think on the whole I am inclined to believe that Socrates' answer still holds, that it is better to allow the wrong than to do wrong, regardless of who the victim is, but it seems... psychologically more difficult to accept.
Hmm.
